Hi and welcome to Radical Self, the podcast where we strip away the illusions that keepyou performing, pleasing and playing small, so you can reclaim the power that's alwaysbeen yours.I'm your host Thorildur, a tantric somatic coach, truth teller and a mirror for yourmost authentic expansion.Here we go deep, we get honest and we meet the parts of you that are dying to come alive.Yeah, I think we should just jump right in.So we are now comfortably sitting in bed, so we won't go for too long because we needto go to sleep, but we really wanted to record this episode.And we're now in Munich.And we had a beautiful day of mini-golf and chilling by the lake today, and the podcastwe are diving into now is something that I hear actually quite often.I've heard this comment quite a few times from people who are, I would say, curiousand also hesitant about entering into any form of non-monogamy.And I'm here with Marja.My boyfriend, Marcel, again, you are the repeating guest in this podcast.Hi.Thank you for being here.So out of all the topics that I mentioned, this was the one that you really wanted totake on.Can you tell me why?You haven't said the topic yet, no?No, but I get, they probably have already read it in the caption.Ah.So the topic is, when people tell me, when we are talking about non-monogamy, when weare talking about non-monogamy, when we are talking about non-monogamy, when we are talkingabout non-monogamy, when we are talking about non-monogamy, when we are talking aboutnon-monogamy, when we are talking about non-monogamy, when we are talking about non-monogamy,when we are talking about non-monogamy, when we are talking about non-monogamy, when we arelike discussing, you know, often it's discussions about my life because people are askingme questions.And then naturally they want to tell me their perception of it and how they feel.And they say, well, you know, I trust my partner to, yeah, they just say, I trust my partner.I just don't, I just don't trust other women or I don't trust other men or the other people.So this is a comment I get many times.So what was your reaction when I read this?Yeah, I think that was the one that sparked my most interest because I feel this statementhas so many different layers and it actually says so much more about the person that issaying that than about the relationship or about the person that is at the receivingend of that, yeah, about the partner.Yeah.And I find this, this really interesting.Um, so the, we, we discussed, I think, we think we have been on and off discussing thatsince, since yesterday or the day before this topic.Um, and every time we have been going a little deeper because there's really so many differentlayers in this, in the single statement, um, that, that, that are such a good mirror tothe relationship where this is being said.Yeah.Um, and the, the layer of mistrust.Mm-hmm.Towards their partner, um, to the, uh, to how that relationship, um, must feel somehowunsafe as well.Mm-hmm.For, uh, for the person being in it.Mm-hmm.Um, not necessarily introduced by the partner, but simply by the, the fear that the personis carrying of being betrayed.Okay, hold on.What do you mean by that?Well.The, the person is obviously holding a fear that something is going to happen becausethey are saying, I don't trust others, but this is really reflecting on a fear that theyhave, um, within themselves, that something is going to happen to that relationship.Right.Where they are in.Can I just jump in here again?I think for simplicity, because this could get complicated because we're not going tobe naming names, um, and, um, yeah, we're just like talking kind of abstract.I think for simplicity, we say the, the person who's like saying,yeah, is person A and then person B is their partner.Yeah.Cause this goes for all genders.So it's going to be all over the place.And then C would be the other people or the other woman, man, whoever.Makes sense.So we have ABC just for simplicities of examples.Yeah.Okay.So you are saying that person A is carrying some kind of fear or mistrust about what couldhappen to the relationship.Yeah.Okay.And I think actually this entire statement says more about person A.Yeah.Than about anybody else involved in this.Yeah.Um, and on so many different levels, because you can start, let's start with the relationshipbetween A and B.Mm-hmm.Um, A obviously doesn't trust her own partner to enforce the rules that they have set.So there's something off there already, or there might be something off because thisis a lack of trust that is there.Yeah.Yeah.So person A doesn't trust B to enforce the rules that they have.Yes.Yeah.And this is, I mean, you're already going straight to the core, I think, of this, whichis not clear to the people who are saying this.Yeah.When they say, I trust my partner, I just don't trust the other people.And I did, I did a short like poll on my stories.I mean, of course it's not solid data or anything, but I, I proposed four options and the optionsthat I proposed and get.So I said, okay, if you feel this way, what is it that you don't trust the other personto do or with?And the options were, the first one was, I don't trust them to honor our boundaries andour connection.So person A doesn't trust C to honor the connection and boundaries that A and B have.That was the first option.The second option was, I don't trust, um, I don't trust them to, um, treat.to not try to steal my partnerI don't trust them to treatme nicely or to be niceto me or finallythe third one wasto treat my partner well and then finallyto be nice to meso those were the optionsand what I think you're speaking to nowthat A doesn't trust Bto uphold the rulesin the relationshipis whatthe first option waskind of talking tonot trusting Cto respect the boundariesand connectionand I think people say thatI don't trust othersbecause it's so much easierto say that aboutthe general othersthan to say that about their own partneryeahand so do you think thatthis iswe're straight at the core ofwhat is my ongoing understandingof this as welland yeah one of my client actuallyreplied to the stories and saidwell you don't actually have to trust the other peopleyou just have to trust your own partnerand sowhen you say thata person saying thisdoesn't actually trust their own partnerwhy do you say thatbecause they say I trust my partnerI just don't trust other peopleI mean the reason is thatin the end if you're in a relationshipso A and B are in a relationshipand they decide to open upyou between A and Bthey come to their rulesif they make sense for othersdoesn't really matterit's their rulesand then B goes outand they agree B can dateand they go out and B meets Cthenit's the responsibility of Bto uphold the rulesthat they have agreed with their partnerso thatyeah that these rulesarethere and metand being enforcedbasically this is the rule of Band not necessarily of Cbecause C might not even knowthese rules at that point in timesothat is why I cannot holdC really accountableto do thator responsiblebut this is really something thatB needs to be doingand when people sayyeah I don't trust othersto stick to meto the rulesthat have been saidtherefore it means thatbecause the othersso C doesn't maybe even know the rulesat that pointthis is really the rule of Bto enforce that but they don't trust their partnertherefore to uphold the rulesand I thinkthis mostly comes down toa problemin the relationshipa trust problem in the relationshipthat is not being voicedbut that is outsourcedbecause it's easier to blamearandom strangeror a group of random strangerseven easieran idea of somebodyexactly the idea of somebodythan your actual partnerwhich israising quite some questionsin the relationshiplike if I cannot trust him to upholdthese five rulesin this relationshipcan I trust him with anything else?can I trust him with anything else?can I trust him with anything else?can I trust him with anything else?hey babeif you want to stop fantasizingabout non-monogamyand finally start living itwith full safetyrespect and clarityI would love to invite youto my upcoming courseLife Beyond Monogamyyou will learn the step by stepof how to navigate the challengesin daily lifeof loving openlyfrom someonemewho has been happily polyamorouswith my husbandfor over eight years nowin that timewe have been together for a long timewe have been throughseveral additionalromantic relationshipsloversbreakupsbreakthroughsand we have alwaysfound a way backto ourselvesand each otherif you sign upfor the waitlist nowyou will benefitfrom early access bonusesas well asthe founders ratewhich is the lowest pricethis course will ever beyou will find the linkin the show notesand if you have any questionsjust send me a messageon Instagramand I would loveto hear from youok I want to jump in herebecauseas much as I agree withmy clientwho commented thisand what you are sayingis that it is actuallythe responsibilityand roleof person Bin this examplelike if B is connectingwith person Cit is Bwho is responsibleto honor the boundariesand the connectionthat they have with AI agree with thatbut when the person saysI trust my partnerI don't trust my partnerI just don't trust other peopleI think they are notconsciously awareof the factlike of the factthat they areyeahin ain a roundabout waysaying that they don'ttrust their partnerI thinkand this is what I seeI think they arelike in thisfuzzinessofthey are not reallyseeing things clearlyand they are not reallygoingto the core ofwhat is the actual fearandthat isthat is so understandablebecause as a wholelike non-monogamyis this scary topicfor a lot of peopleit is stigmatizedit is judgedlike there isall the reasonsfor your mindto be scaredof actually goingtolike sit downand have actual clarityabout what you wantand whatfears come upso the people justtheythey are happywiththisthis storyI trust my partnerthat sounds super sexybut I just don't trustthe other peopleit is likesuch a solideasynobody is going tojudge you for saying thisbecause yeahpeople are likeit is so easyto agree withthis blanket statementandto not have to goany further into thisI mean I can seea tableof friendssitting aroundwhen somebody dropsthat statementand everybodywill nod their headoh my goshtotallymyselflike John would neverlike betray mebut like those otherhoes out thereit is likethat is totallyhow I would see it goyeahthis is exactlywhy I wanted to havethis conversationbecausebecauseI understandthat it is a scarythingto get closertolooking at yourselfin the mirrorand seeingwhat is actuallyhappeningthan to justuse this as a blanketstatementso for those of youwho are listeningwho are curiousabout non-monogamyand are nowkind of wonderinglike hold onif this isbeen my excuseand now I am seeingthat it is notsuch a good excusewhat else is going to meanyou knowyour fearyou have an entire listof other excusesthat you could trythere are so many excusesyou could trydon't worryyou will not run outof excusesdon't worrythere is no stressok sook so nowthat we have clearedthat it ispersons beresponsibilityto upholdresponsibilitiesand agreementsI meanI thinkthen we gointo the territoryofI thinkI meanthis is a wholeanother podcast episodehow people feelabout boundariesand whose responsibilityit isto make themclearcommunicatedand reinforcedor likeenforcedwhenthey are brokenbut I don't thinkwe need to gointo that nowit is justthatit is person Bwho is responsiblefor thatand alsoit could also beperson Aresponsiblefor beingvery clearabout whatare the agreementsand the boundariesthat they needbut which is a wholeanother discussionthat A and Bprobably have not hadat this pointyeahmaybemaybe justone point on thatiswhat you were just sayingis thatit is really importantfor A and Bto have this conversationon what the boundariesactually arebecause itjust becomesvery fuzzyto uphold somethingthat isvery vagueyeah but the thing iswhen they are livingwith this fearexcused in their mindI trust my partnerI just don't trustother peoplethey are not evenadmittingor allowing themselvesto go closerto the actualdesireor curiosityto exploreopening upyeahso that is whythey don't needthe boundariesand the agreementsbecause they arein an exclusiverelationshipyeahsoit is likea deadlock situationlike A doesn't haveto movebecause Bso they don't haveto move anywherebecausethey have this fearor this excusewhich makes themimmune to non-monogamyor likenot wanting itand againlikeI'm not sayingthat everybodyshould be non-monogamousI'm totally notbut what I amfinding fascinatingabout this statementis thatit can bea disguiseor an illusionor it can bethisfuzzy hindrancefor peopleto nottruly feelfreeto make choicesbecause you mightmindbond let youbecause they believethis statementthat I justdon't trustthe other peopletherefore it's nota safe thingto exploreit's not a territoryI want to go inyou knowI don't want torisk this againif they've beenhurt in the pastand sotheir mindor their subconsciousdoesn't let themactually explorethe truthand I meanwe bothwe were talkingabout this yesterdayyourone of yourcore valuesin lifeis self-determinationbeing abletotodeterminefor yourselfhow you wantto live your lifeandbeing freeto make those choicesandsame as for melikemycore valueis sovereigntywhich isjust a different namefor kind ofthe same thingso likeI amindependentlyyou knowsovereignand ableto make choicesthat are alignedwith how I wantto liveand I thinkbelieving somethinglike thisor holdingtightly ontoa statementlikethiskeeps peopleaway fromreally seeingthe optionsthe way they areandand reallyyeahjust likereally allowingtheir mindtoto explorewhat is an actualoptionyeahI agree with thatyeahso that's whyI think it's veryfascinating to gointo thisbecauselike you saidbeforeif somebodywould dropthis at agroup offriendsnobody wouldobjectnoI meanunless it'sme and youyeahokayso I wannado you wantto saysomething elsenoyeahI wanted togo throughthe otherand sowhen I wasasking thison myon mystoryIyeahI meanI genuinelywould loveto have adeeper conversationwith anybodywho feelsthis waywho wantsto debatethisoryeahhas adifferentviewpointon itthe otheroptionswereI don'ttrust themto nottry tostealmypartnerandthatoneagaincomes backto nottrustingyour ownpartnerbecauseif somebodytries tostealmypartnerI'mjustgonnalaughatthemyeahalsoI meanstealinganotherpersonyou can'tstealmypartnerat firsthe's notyoursyou don'town himI don'town himnumber oneand secondlyhe's like90 kiloslike howare yougonna stealhimno butalsoif heat somepointdecidesthat heis goingto leaveyouforsomebodyelseyeahthis isnotthe faultof theotherpersonrightbecauseyourpartnerifmaleor femaleisindependentanindependentbeingthat doesn'tbelongto anybodyand he'smaking achoiceto gowiththe otherpersonor notthisisabsolutelysomethingto grieveandsomethingtocanbeverysadabouttotallyandbutthisisnottheotherpersonstealingsomethingfromyounoandIthinkthisissomethingthatIveryI'mveryallergictoanyformsofownershipstatementsinrelationshiplikethis ismygirlfriendthisissheor heisstealinghimfrommeorwhateverelseitisbecausethisownershippartissosostronginourinoursocietyit'spraisedandnormalizedyesromanticizedit'sromanticizedanditfeelsittakesthesovereigntyofthepersontotallytotomakehisownchoicesyeahandIfindthisreallydisturbingthis iswhysothis istheIthinkout ofalloftheonesthatwerelistedandwecomingtothetwootheronesIthinkIthinkthisistheonethatrubsmethewrongwaythemostyeahsomebodysaysthisyesforallthereasonsthatIjustmentionedandImeanitmightsoundverytwistedbutIwouldbeveryhappyifsomebodywouldliketrytostealyouifsomebodywaslikedamnIwantthismanandlikeI'mgonnagiveitmyalltotrytoimpresshimandallthethingslikeIwouldfindthatentertainingandImeanlet'sbehonestifyougointoethicalnonmonogamyyourpartnerisgoingtodateandheisgoingtoshowhisbestsideandthepersonhe'sdatingishopefullygoingtoshowtheirbestsidesoisthisstealingbecausetheytrytobethebestversionofthemselvesthattheyarebringingtowhateverrelationshiptheyaregoingtohaveIdon'tknowiftheydon'tdoitIwouldjustassumethatthisisgoingtobeashittydateyeahyeahImeanit'sinterestingtothinkaboutwhatwouldcountastryingtostealsomebodylikehowdoyoutrytostealsomeoneImeanwealsomentionedpeopledatingpolyamorouspeopleandtryingtoconvertthemtomonogamythatcouldbeonewayoftryingtostealthemtryingtoconvincethemthatyouknowbuteventhateventhatisjustthepersonthatisbeingstolenhasthefreewilltodecideiftheydon'twanttobepolyamorousanymoresopersonBinthisagainitcomestopersonAnottrustingBtostandstronglyenoughintherelationshipformatortheirownvaluesortheirownfeelingstheirowncommitmentlikewhateveritisandwhatbreaksmyheartthemostinthisisthedisrespectthatIhearindirectlyunconsciouslyaswellinjustnottrustingBtobetheirownpersonandtohavethementalclaritytorecognizewhensomebodyisbehavinglikeabitchifsomebodyisgenuinelytryingtohaveyouleaveyourpartnerforthemthatshittybeingandIthinkeverybodywouldbecausetheysayItrustmypartnerthenyoushouldalsotrustyourpartnertorecognizewhensomebodyisbehavingin ashittywayitdoesn'tfeelgoodit'sliketrustingtheirowngutfeelingandyeahsothefearofnottrustingCtotrytoyeahnottrustingthatCwouldn'ttrytostealmypartnerImeanyeahmaybetheywillbutyourpartnerisprobablygoingtoseethroughthatandnotletthemandit'snotthecaseIsaidbeforeit'ssomethingto besadaboutandgrievebutit'sneveryourthingtoownyeahtotallyifthepartnerisstealablein awaythatitdoesn'ttakemorethanyouknowwhateverthetacticsthattheyuseorwhatevertoleavethenitwasprobablynotasolidrelationshiptobeginwithandImeanIcanevensayinmylastrelationshipIfeltveryjealousfromthebeginninglikewhenevertherewasahintofanotherconnectionIfeltveryjealousandIgenuinelyfeltverypossessiveandwhenitendedyeahinabigwaybecausetherewasanotherconnectioninthepicturethatreallyshowedmethatthereasonwhyIwasjealouswasbecausetherewasnotalotofsecurityinthatrelationshipandsometimesthat'swherejealousyreallycomesfromit'slikeitisshowingyouarealIdon'twanttosaydangerthere'snothingdangerousaboutthisbutforsomepeoplemaybeitissoyeahsometimesthelackoftrustisgenuineandit'sbuiltonthefactthatthereisalackofsecurityintherelationshipandthat'ssomethingthatneedstobelookedatandifthat'ssomethingthat'scausingyouworryyeahsothetwofinalonesweremaybewedon'thavetogotherewasyeahIdon'ttrustotherpeopletotreatmypartnerwellortobenicetomesothesothefirstonethatyoumentionednowtotreatyourpartnerwellbutagainthatwastheoneyoufeltthemostwellnoactuallyreconsideringtheonethatwediscussedbeforethat'soneIfeltthemostIthinkthetotreatmypartnerwellthissoundslikereallygoodintentionsrightyeahsothissoundsagainwe'resittingatatableeverybodywouldknocktheirheadI'mworriedformypartnerbutthenagainyourpartnercanmakehisownchoicesonhowhewantstobetreatedandnothingstopspersonAfromsayingheyIwouldliketohaveaconversationaboutthatIfeelthathowyou'rebeingtreatedandwhatIamobservingisABCisthishowyouwanttobetreatedisthishowyoufeeloristhatthestoryinmyheadthatI'mbuildingaroundthatandthatbecomesadifferentconversationitdoesn'tbecomeaconversationoflikeIdon'ttrusttheothersbutitbecomesaconversationbetweenA andBtosayheyyeahthisishowIwanttobetreatedImaybeevenlikethatyeahI don'tknowwhatevernokinkshaminghereorthispersonBwhocansayafterwardsIkinkyouIdidnotrealizethatbutnowthatI'mseeingitthisisnothowIwanttobetreatedbecausewealsoknowthatfreshloveisfullofhormonesandyeahmightbemightbedifficulttoseethroughthingsthatarenotgoinggreatsoIthinkthisisthisissomethingwherethere'sgoodintentionsinthatIfeelbutIthinktheyshouldbeaddressedinokaywecannotdothisbecauseIdon'ttrustotherpeopleandthenthelastoneImeanthistakespersonBoutofthepicturerightthisreallyleavesjustpersonAandpersonCyeahIdon'ttrusttheotherpeopletotreatmenicelycorrectthisthenagainshowshowmuchdoyoustandbyyourvaluesyeahandhowmuchdoyoucanyouverbalizeandstandbehindyourboundariestoprotectyourselfandthisagainthisisnottheroleofBbutthisistheroleofpersonAbecausethisishowthepersonisfeelingandthereforeyeahIthinkIcanmostrelateinthesewithnumberthreeandnumberfourthatweweretalkingabouttreatmypartnerwellandtreatmewellbecauseIthinkbehindtheseIsensea bitmoregenuinecareofA andBinvolvedbutstillIfeelthatthisisbetterhandledintheconversationthanablankstatementandImeanjustthatthere'sthesefouroptionsandmaybethere'sonethatwehaven'tevenexploredalreadyshowsthatsuch ablankstatementthatagainaroundthetableweget alotofheadnoddingforyeahhowmuchcanhidebehindthatandIthinkthat'swhyitmakesso muchsensetolookintothemandsayokaywhyamIfeelingthatwayandisthatsomethingthatIneedtotreatdifferentlythanjustsaywecannothaveanopenrelationshipbecauseofthisyeahandImeanlikeIsaidbeforepeoplewhomightfeelthiswayandthatistheirsubconsciouswayofprotectingthemfrompossiblyadmittingthattheymightwanttobenon-monogamousinsomewayorthatthey'reopentoexploringitthosepeoplemaybeare notlisteningtothepodcastbecausethey'rejustlikewantingtobepushingitawaybutyeahIhopethatwe'veshinedsomelightinthefactthatthisisnotthisisjustthetipoftheicebergliketherearedeepertruthsbehindeachofthesethatwementionedand ofcoursetherecanbemorewhichyeaheachofthemhassomevaliditytoitandthereareotherwaystodealwithitsothatyeahsothatthisistheconversationdoesn'thave toendhereIwouldsayIthinkallofthisshouldbemoreoftoreallyexplorewhatisgoingonthanaconversationendyeahabsolutelyImeanwhat itshowsmealsoisthatthereisIthinkforpeoplethathavethesethoughtsthereisstillalongwaytogotogointoanopenrelationshipandit'sapathworthwalkingifyouareactuallyinterestedinitbecauseyouwilldiscoveralotoftheseexperiencesandthereasonsbehindthemoh mygoshyouregoisgoingtobesocreativeletmetellyouit'sgoingtocomeupwithallkindsofwaysImeanonescenariowhere Icanseethatthisisveryprevalentisokaylet'ssaylet'ssaypartnerBistheonewhoreallywantstobeopenandthisispartnerA'sexcusetowhynotdoingitsothat'swhereIthinkthiscommonlymaybeplayedoutandImaybewanttosharejustonefinalbeforeweendthisoneexampleofhowthiscouldgowelllikewhattherealityiswhenyoudon'thavetofearthatyoucan'ttrustotherpeopleislet'ssayA andBhavethisrelationshipandpartnerAhasthisfearthatotherpeoplearetryingtostealhimordon'tlikelongtorespecttherelationshipsowhenpartnerBwouldmeetsomebodythatthey'reinterestedinthattheywouldfirstshareitwithAandsayheyImetthispersonIhaven'thadadeeperconversationwiththembutI'mreallycuriouslikehowdoesthatfeelforyouandthentheywouldhaveaconversationabouthowthatfeelsandpartnerAcouldexpressjustgeneralfeelingsofhowwellnourishedtheyfeelatthemomentiftheyneedanyconnectionfromBblahblahblahifthey'rejustwellresourcedtobeabletohandlethefactthatthere'sanewconnectionpossibleandbecauseone ofthehighestratedoptiononthepollthatImadewasIdon'ttrusttheotherpeopletorespectourboundariesandagreementssobeforeBwouldgoandconnectwithanewpersontheywouldhavelikeaokhereareouragreementswhichhopefullytheytalkedaboutmonthsagolikethesearetheagreementsthatI'mresponsibleforupholdingI'mgonnasharethemwithpersonConourfirstdateifthat'sgonnahappenandmaybepersonAwantstoaskpersonCtomaybemessagethemortobeabletolikegoandsayhibeforetheyhavetheirdatelikepersonAcanaskforthingsaskforwaystoberespectedorincludedorjustacknowledgethatthey'rethereearlyonifthatmakesthemfeelbetterandsoIthinkthisissomethingthatpeopledon'treallyseeasanoptionbutit'stotallyanoptionitdoesn'tmeanthatChastodoitbutifthat'swhatisreallyneededthenAandBcanhaveaverybeautifulconversationabouthowthoseneedscanbemetandthefearscanbesoothedandallofthesethingscanbeverybeautifullydoneandtrulythemorepeopletrulyembracenonmonogamyandtheirpolyamoryandtheystandmoreproudlyinitandaredeterminedtomeetpeoplewhoarealsothatthemoretrustworthypeopleyoumeetandthat'sIthinkthemorepeoplearetryingtohideitorfeelashamedthemoreimmaturelet'ssaypeopletheymeetandthemoreshitshowsarehappeningandyeahthat'satleastonethingthatIseedevelopingsoIthinkI'mcompleteonthisanswerfornowisthereanythingyouwanttoaddnoIthinkwecoveredthistinylittletopicquiteextensivelyyeahImeanitisandeeplayerssoifyouguysareinterestedinlearningmoreaboutthisandthishassparkedyourcuriosityfornonmonogamyIamworkingonanepiccoursethatguidesyouthroughallthemostimportantsteppingstonesinyourjourneytounderstandingnonmonogamyinthefirstmonthsneededandIwalkyouthroughquiteapersonaljourneywithextensiveexercisesandallkindsofjuicytopicsthataregoingtobeneededonthisjourneysostaytunedorcheckoutthelinksintheshownotesifyouwanttobeonthewaitlistorfindoutmorethankyoufordoingthisepisodewithmethat'sfunthankyoubyebyeifthisepisodemovedsomethinginyouIwouldlovetohearitsendmeamessageoninstagramorfollowanyofthelinksintheshownotestoexploreotherwayswecouldrisetogetheruntilnexttimekeepchoosingtruthpowerandyourownradicalself
