Lava AkademiLava AkademiWe're back againYes, and today we have something very very special in storeYeah, we've got a cool one this timeSo, most of what we've done thus far has been kind of interviewing geologistsSpecifically talking about volcanoesOr geological processesBut we're kind of veering off a little bit hereBecause this one's off the wallYep, it's definitely differentAnd I think it's very intriguingIt's, it's, yeah, you should stay tuned for sureIn fact, let's just jump over to that interview right nowLava AkademiAlright, so welcome back to the Lava Akademi podcastAnd we have a fantastic guest with us this timeWe have Max GreinerMax GreinerWith usWho is a designerAnd has been doing some pretty interesting stuffBecause one of the things that I get askedVery regularly when we're doing the Lava Show hereIs, can you blow lava?Can you, you know, make things with it?And generally speaking, my answer to that question is noBut actually the answer is yesAnd Max has been doing something really interesting with thatSo, first of all, can you just tell us a little bit about yourselfWhere you're interested in Lava AkademiWhere you're interested in materialsAnd making stuff like this all comes fromYeah, absolutelySo, my background is industrial designI've been classically taught in industrial design in GermanyAnd you kind of have to imagine industrial design as an extension of product design, I would sayYeahWhere you not only assign like a form or a function to a productBut you're also aware about the systems surrounding itSo, the ecosystem of an objectBasically means the life the materials have before going into that objectThe life the materials have after itThe way that people interact with this objectAnd what kind of social dynamics or cultural dynamics it supportsThat's what I've been doing in GermanyUntil I realized that I need to go further with my perspective in designSo, I decided to do a master's courseWhile, yeah, looking for...A place to do thatI found IcelandI was lucky enough to secure a scholarshipSo, I ended up coming hereAnd kind of extended my...Yeah, the perspective on my design practiceTo a more broad and fluid oneAnd I've kind of found myselfTo work within the local systems and regional systemsI really wanted to figure outWhat it takes to create somethingWithin a very strict geological or geographical boundaryIceland is, I mean, of courseAn islandThat's quite far away from, you know, Central EuropeWhere I was just used toAnything, reallyAnything, yesAnything, yesWhere you're just used to, you knowBeing able to just get the materialOr order the materialOr just get to the next expertWithin two hours of that certain topicThat you're working withAnd this challenge is what I wanted to get fromBeing in IcelandAnd it, yeah, it proved to beExactly what I wanted to doBeing in touch within the regional systemsLearning how communication here worksBecause it's way more direct and less bureaucraticThan I've been used toBut why did you initially choose Iceland?Like, was there something specificAbout the materialsOr the culture or the countryOr was it just a chanceLike, you thought it was interestingWell, it was kind ofI had the opportunity to go to eitherSwitzerland, Finland or IcelandAnd I've never been to Iceland beforeSo it kind of felt like the biggest adventureSo I just went based on intuitionAnd my gut feelingWhich I usually don't really doBut this time I was likeOkay, it feels rightI want to go thereAnd of course, alsoI mean, the material dynamics of this placeWere really fascinatingPanic activitiesThe geothermal systemsI'm really interested inThe fisheriesBut yeah, to maybe justLike, quickly link to the questionWhere my fascination is coming fromFor design or materialsYou've got a family history of this, right?I do, I do have a family history of thisYeah, like, way, way back in the daysA guy named Hans GreinerHe founded the glass hut in LangbachWhich is in ThuringiaIn forestsLike the green heart of Germany, we call itAnd he founded the glass hut in 1529And my grandpaKind of the last generationHe was a teacher at the technical school for glassIn the German Democratic RepublicAnd after he retiredHe became a glass historian, you might sayOr a geoneologistWent way back into the family rootsAnd also, that's how weAs kids, I have three little sistersWe were always exposed to being in a glass hutBeing, you knowBeing taught what it meansTo source materials locallyHow they inform an objectBecause based on what kind of ashes you use in glassOr what kind of sandOr what kind of sodaThe main ingredients of glassIt just changes its shapeAnd appearance completelyThat's a goodWhen you haveWhen you kind of grow up around stuffWhatever that isWhatever that stuff isIt gives you such an in-depth knowledge of itCompletely shapes your perspective of itLike me, I grew up in a kind ofSmall kind of farming communityAnd it completely changes your perspectiveOn, you know, where that stuff is sourced fromWhereas, you know, most peopleThey just go to the supermarket to buy thingsAnd they don't really think twiceAbout where it actually came fromOr what went into producing itBut when you grow up around itIt shifts your perspectiveThank youI guess that's probably your storyAnd that's exactly the dynamic thatThat's still the main inspirationMotivation forAll of my projects reallyIs thatI feel like there wasA societal shiftPropelled byGlobalismIndustrialisationAnd capitalism alsoThat just det��tchedPeople fromTheir surroundings in a wayAnd I find thatBeing aware ofWhat kind of materialsYour objects are made fromWhere are they producedHow are they producedWhat's the craft that'sThat's in theand what are the traditions of this craftjust makes you relate a lotdifferently to how you liveand how you view yourenvironments and I think that'sa very interesting task of a designerto think about that and createobjects consciously thatcreate this connection again to the environmentSo this crazyproject that you've been involved inover the last yearwith lavayou're using basaltand thisis a substance thatis like literally from thesecond you arrive in Icelandit is literallyall around youit is everywhereHere the floor is lavaThe floor really is lava and it's basalticfor the most partSoit's very easy if you spend any time hereto just begin ignoring itit's just the way it isSo I wonderedwhat made you start seeing it differentlyI meanthe second I landedI mean it'sas you saidit's so abundantyou can't step a foot outside Keflavik airportwithout touching basalt basicallySo I was interested inhow are people perceiving ithow do they get in touch with itor how do they use itin everyday life or in the artsand the different cultural sectorsThat's when Icame across a projectcalled LavaformingCan you tell us a bit about that?Yes, it's a project byArnhildur Palmadóttirand her sonArtnastudio in Arnhildur PalmadóttirThey do amazingconcepts about rethinkingthe way architecture is structuredand one of themone of these more speculative projects is calledLava formingand it kind of imagines a futurein which Iceland has managedto work withlife eruptions to createnot only compartmentsor parts, architectural partsbut whole buildings, basically terra formingwith a life eruption3D printing structuresand kind of rethinking howarchitecture is working completelyI heard her talk during the Design March 2025and I was so fascinated byyou know, that was a wayfor me to understand this material, because it'sþví að það er eitthvað, eitthvað background actorsem ég verður það í Ísland að hlut, ég menn það erþað er það main actor, það er protagonistef þú verður að það er hlut og landskapog þú, þú ert verið af það að það er basalten hlut, það erhlutið á asfált eða í konkréteða kannski hlutið í hluten það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er það projekt að það er eitthvaðog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumen það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumog það er ekki aðeins í fjárfjárnumÞað er eitthvað. Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað. Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.Það er eitthvað.I mean, first of all, the mold, can it be made of anything or does it need to be made of something specific?No, we tested three different materials.Casting sand, that's usually used for aluminium, proved to be not the perfect fitbecause the oil was just burning up too quickly and it led to a lot of bubbles being released into the molten basalt.But aluminium and steel were two materials that proved to be working.And the aluminium mold, I was able to produce myself and learn how to make.And the steel mold, I was lucky to get Malmsteipan, the local steel foundry, to cast the mold for me basically.I just went there with a 3D print and it's like, I'm a student, can you do this for me?It's so Icelandic, I think.You know, here it's...It's just like, hey, I have this idea, I'm just going to go talk to that person and like hope that they say yes.And very often people are just like curious and I think it's in the mentality of the Icelandic people.That's the best part of working as a designer here, I think.This open-mindedness and this like just the culture of knocking on doors is so refreshing.And people are just, yeah, if they like an idea, they just roll with it.It's something that, yeah.And we're few enough, I think, for the casual.And we're few enough, I think, for the casualness of it to just work.Yes, exactly.Okay, but so that was about the mold.What about the kiln itself?Like you mentioned earlier, now I can't remember the exact word.Annealing.Annealing, yeah.Yes.So that and the very slow process of cooling down, that is instrumental for it to work as well.Yes.Yeah, because the cooling rate is going to affect what the finished product looks like.What it looks like and also how much of the tension.How much of the tensions inherent to the material, like the hot material, get released.So if it's cooling too quickly to begin with, then...It gets more fragile?Yeah.Weaknesses will appear in the thing that you clearly don't want it to have.Exactly, yeah.If you cool it too quickly, it's brittle.And that is basically just glass.Exactly.And if you cool it too...If you cool it too slow, we've also found that there are crystals growing,like mineral crystals growing in the basalt, that also make it brittle again.Not as brittle as cooling it too quick, but...So you kind of have to find a sweet spot in the middle.But indeed, getting this kiln was a big challenge.Programming it and then finding the right protocols was just a lot of trial and errorand a lot of jumping from the kiln to the...So essentially it was you and Pjotr who is our...It was Lavasjós Head of Melting, just so everyone knows who this mysterious Pjotr is.Yes, yes.So you managed to figure that out and like...Can I just say, I witnessed a couple of these things.I just happened to be passing through the melting room when all this was going on.And the closest thing I can compare it to...It was like watching somebody trying to do ballroom dancing on a space station.It was this crazy kind of...Multiple people kind of going in and kind of dancing around each other,moving things around and it was this kind of ballet with ridiculous suits.It's very hard to describe it any other way than what I just said.It was...It really was a dance.But that's beautiful to hear.Yeah.I think that's exactly what's needed to create a craft is to have this kind of...I presume that those ones that I witnessed, you'd clearly done a few by that point.Yes.And so you'd kind of got the kind of...You had an orchestrated...The choreography was in place.You knew everyone knew where they had to go.Yeah.Actually, it was fascinating to watch it.For me...I remember once seeing you discuss the kiln and how to make it work.And I mean, you were facing a problem.So, like, it was a little bit of a challenge that you needed to try and overcome.But just, like, the excitement in both of your eyes.I was just like, they are loving this.Yeah.They're having so much fun.Absolutely, yeah.Okay.Well, that's good.There's...Yeah.I mean, it's always...It's an interesting process of getting into a new topic as a designerbecause my domain is creative methodsor seeing creative methods as a way to do research,to observe, to create insights.And from these insights, materialize something.So, I mean, working with lava is something that I was a complete amateur withbecause, obviously...Most people are.Where...Do you have the chance?Do you have the chance to learn that?So, you kind of puzzle together the knowledge needed to make a process workor to create what you want to create.And I think this is what you...Yeah, that's actually one of the questions I had.There's, like, how much of the process is learned through the technical knowledgeand how much is actually just learned by watching and feeling the dynamics of what's going on?I'd say, like, 30% is gathering the knowledge and 70% is just doing...Doing what you need to do and then keeping track of it,having protocols and just trying to assess what you've learned,trying to assess what you need to learn in order to progress.But, of course, I've done a lot of research in the beginningon the existing basalt industries,on the chemical composition that this basalt hasand what kind of crystals can form.So, I've also talked to geologistsand to...Also, to historians, actually, from the National Museum,National Museum of Icelandto understand how basalt was used historicallyand if there have been attempts to use this materialby melting and stabilizing it.A lot of ceramics and glass artistsand that's kind of how I established a fundamentof research and informationbut then everything else was just doing it.So, for me, like, there's two things that really stand out there.One of the things that you talk about,in your thesis,is, you know, that the flaws in the objectsis information rather than simply mistakesand I really think that the whole learning experiencethat you're going through,like, you start by doing itand I know that...I know for a fact that, you know,the first few times it was not really successful.You had to reiterate the process over and over and over againto get to the point of actually being successfuland I think it's a beautiful thing.That, you know, that...Because it's the whole concept of innovationwhich we here are so fascinated about, you know,whether it's in the form of creating an art projector if it's something else,it's this learning aspect.You do, you fail, and then you learn from that.It's not a mistake.It's a good thing.Then you can do it better next time.So, I think that's really beautiful, just an observation.But also,so, it really...Something that you mentioned earlierabout also not wanting the basaltto cool down too slowlybecause of growing crystals.Did you ever have anyoneor collaborate with any geologistin studying those?Not yet, unfortunately.But that's a big, big point on the listfor the next steps also,to understand where the differencein the colors of the objects lie.Because if you look at the objects,they're ranging from a very dark blackto a very light green, basically.And we've been explaining itwith either being in a very amorphous glass-like stateor a very crystalline stony state.So, the range in between kind of determineshow the color, yeah,is being created.But we haven't tested it yet.And that would be a dreamto go to someone who can do an SEM,like a microscopic analysis,and tells us exactly what's happeningand what's the sweet spot also for stabilization.Curious as well,just from the point of view of somebodywho is, you know,I'm literally playing with lava every day,and you get to know the lava.Was that your experience as well?Did you kind of learn to read the lava, as it were?Yes, absolutely.And,throughout the summer,I've also been able to work as a melter backstageand to conduct the pouring of the kiln myself.And you really realize that the state of the lavaalso depends, I guess,on the kind of,like the batch we get from Vík,which is the place where we get the tefra,the basal that's being put into the kiln.The source material.Yeah.And you really realize that the archive,a quote-unquote,that we're using here to melt,is unstable in a way that it just variesfrom every batch that you get.So it's in many ways differentthan the basalt quarries they have in Central Europe,where you have basically one huge patchof this grey basaltthat will have the same composition every time.Here it's different.Here you kind of realize when it's more viscous,it's flowing slower or quicker.And you have to adapt to that, of course.Yeah, and there's all these variables,not just the original source,but also variances in what's going onin the heating process itself.And even, I suspect,environmental stuff might have a part to play in it.I've always wondered if,and I'd love to get somebody to actually kind ofgo in depth on this one,actually analyze if atmospheric pressure and stuffis actually having an impact on what's going on.I'd be curious to find out.Definitely, yeah.Anyway, so the object,that you actually made,I mean, you've mentioned that you had vases,trees, you've even got a hot dog holder.You've got the hot dog holder there.Yes.There you go.That's it there.Fantastic.Why on earth did you pick those specific things?Yeah.So when you're working with material-based developmentor process-based development,it's usually quite interesting to thinkwhat is the first thing that you do?What is the first thing that you do?What is the first thing that you do?What is the first thing that you do?What is the first object like?What should it communicate?And I think what I decided was thatall of these objects that are present here nowthat exist that you talked about,the hot dog holder,also that they are demonstratorsfor the process itself.So they each communicate something different.How thick can this material be?How flat can it be?Which kind of radius can meet a rectangle?So it's quite technical.In many ways.But then I also wanted the aesthetics of themto be captivating.So we're going to put some picturesin the show notes, I think.Yep.Right?So people can look at the objects.They reference also a dynamicthat in Iceland is quite important,which is imports of materials from abroad.So I've been interested in, you know,classical pattern makingin weaving or carving.And I've kind of been trying to find a bridgeon what contemporary patterns look like.And what I've always come acrosswas packagings everywhere.So that was like a formal thingthat interested mebecause they're quite anonymous.They're artificially generatedto hold electronic productsor building materials and so on.So I kind of tried to fuse both.Like interesting aestheticsthat reference contemporary productsand very dynamic I find interesting.But then also, yeah, just showing, you know,how this material can look likein many different things.And now it's the point to actually go back a stepand rethink what can we actually do with it.So it's kind of like an ironic thingthat you've got objectsthat are so completely homegrown Icelandic products,which look like packaging that came in from China.I think that's something, I think that's brilliant.Yeah, thank you.Yeah, and I think now it's,I mean, and I think that's also what helpedour conversation to continue further.And this project is going to be exhibitedduring the Dutch Design Week in Octoberand at a design festival in Pragueand has been gaining recognitionfrom the German Design Newcomer Award.So in many ways, the design was successful already.But I think what's needed nowis to sit together.And really think what actual objectsfor, you know, the market or the store herecan be made from it.What has cultural value?What do people want and need?So for that, I would say the current formsare not ideal,even though they gain a lot of attention.Yeah, totally.And I agree also, I mean, aesthetically,I would say they look a little bit odd.Mm-hmm.Now it's like something foreign.You're like, what is that?It's a little bit like that.Yes.And I mean, we have those items on display nowdown in our welcome area and gift store.And I mean, we see people are already very curious.They're like,What is this stuff?What is this?And then once we, or either they read itbecause we have some information there next to itor they ask and we explain,people are usually like,wait, this is made from,you're lava?And I think people find it very intriguing.But I mean, right now, just like you say, Max,you know, it's like,it's not necessarily something that you would buy.It's not very practical yet.But that is what we would like to explore.You know, could we figure out a wayto use your learnings over the past few monthsto maybe create somethingthat people could find value,but also aesthetically appealing?Yeah.I'm sure you tried a whole bunch of different things as well.Was there any stuff that you tried makingthat just simply didn't,like any objects that simply did not work at all?Yeah, recently we've been trying to make a candle holderwith a very thick base, for example,to see how much material we could gatherin one thick cylindrical spot.And that just didn't,like it always just crashed out of the mold.It liquidized.It liquidized on the table.It was messy.So you're still learning?Of course.I mean, I see this as the very first step of something.And a very, like, sound first stepand it feels stable.But in many ways, it's just, yeah,it's just the beginning.Maybe one reference I find interesting historically.There was an architect called Frank Lloyd Wrightand in the 1920s,he created the Ennis House,which is quite known in the movie scene.The first Blade Runner with Harrison Fordwas filmed there.It was also present, I think,in Game of Thrones and the series Westworld.And he created this house from modular concrete bricksthat was back then a novel methodto work with concrete.And they were very intricate, these pieces,a modular system where you could hold walls from.And,and,and they were just aesthetically so captivatingthat people were like,what,what is happening here?Even though,you know,static and material wise,it wasn't like the best way to work with concrete,but it certainly got the point across of this technologyand it gained a lot of attention.I think that's,that may be a good reference to understandwhere we are in the creation of this process.Kind of proof of concept.Yes.Yeah.Precisely.Yeah.And I,I feel in many ways,this was too.And now it's a matter of creating something that,that,that not only is like a test to see if something works,but that actually people would maybe like to own.Yeah.As a,as a,either something very usable and practicalor just as a memory of coming to Iceland.So,I mean,that takes us down the road of the differencebetween a manufacturing process,versus a craft.How would you kind of define that?That's a tough one.I've been,yeah,I've been thinking about this a lotand it's quite hard to situate this.Where does one end and the other begin?Yes,exactly.Because it's so interwoven.Because the whole,the,the way the kilns are set up is quite industrial.That's huge kilns.It's very well,like,controlled.Safety measurements,et cetera.Everything's in place for this to work as smoothly as possible.And then the way we go into the molds is very messy and very uncontrolled yet.So it's,yeah,it's,I couldn't really say where to place it,actually,but I,I think the dance you described earlier definitely speaks for it being a,being a craft and this choreography that we're still trying to figure out.Or actually,one of my,my dreams,that we still have to realize is to get Anders Vange here.He's a,a glassblower in Kjallanes and he,like,his studio is called Reykjavík Glass and we've been working together for the very first trial in January,where we just used a small kiln from the lava show in his workshop to pour a little bit of lava and stabilize that.And he took,his glassblowing stick and he formed a little flower from the lava and then also put it into the kiln.We managed to stabilize that.So in many ways he already,you know,yeah,he,he has proven that it can also be done completely manual without a mold to,to form this material.How interesting.And I think it would be amazing to get him here again and also get his input on kind of choreography that's going on in the back.And trying to,yeah,look for that intersection with local craftspeople more.Is that what you're trying to kind of,is that what you're trying to encourage is kind of local people using local material?Definitely.I think that's,that's what it's all about,especially in a place where you're so dependent on global trade routes.And I mean,we're living in times where they are not as stable anymore as we anticipated maybe a couple of years ago.Is this what you call resilience?In your,in your thesis?Absolutely.Right.And I think,I mean,you know,looking,I can't imagine a nation more resilient than Icelanders if you look at the history and the kind of challenges they had to face.It's,it's crazy what kind of ingenuity and creativity arose from these,these challenges.And I think one of these challenges now is to,yeah,rethink how much you want to be dependent on,on other manufacturing processes abroad and yeah,just,you know,import export dynamics.And I think the more local you get,if it's within a sustainable boundary,of course,and the slower maybe also processes go,I think that's also a big,big point acceleration versus slowness.I think that creates resilience in many ways.Yeah.It's like this balance between dependence versus self-sufficiency,you know,the craft versus industry,yeah,craft and shit.I think,I think it's a,it's a nice way of thinking about it.But,you know,I'm,I'm also interested in hearing,like,in terms of doing your thesis and research and coming to your conclusions,I mean,was having access to the equipment of Lava Show?I mean,without it,it wouldn't have been possible at all.And I think also then the idea for this thesis wouldn't have been,you know,wouldn't have existed.Because in many ways that the,that I wanted to do my thesis about this project started with our dialogue that we had in the office here.Yeah.And I mean,again,that's the Icelandic spirit.We talked about it like three times.And the fourth time,I had a small kiln and a lava melter who helped me do the first trial,which is incredible.And just speaking from my experiences in Germany where even getting access to a production facility sometimes takes half a year because it has to get cleared through many,many,like,levels of hierarchy.That's just,yeah,the best,the best thing that could have happened.So I guess one of the lessons from the whole thing is just the power of networking.A hundred percent,yeah.And the,yeah,and the power of communicating an idea clearly,I think,and also being open for that idea to,to change in the dialogue with the people you're in touch with.But definitely,I mean,the network,that's also why I'm still here in Iceland is just,yeah,special in a lot of ways.Good to hear.Yeah.I mean,you're,I mean,this is,you know,it's ultimately,it's,it's from volcanic activity and you're sort of giving it new life.How much do you think about the geological history of that and in the way that you're approaching the,the objects?Yeah,I'm actually not too big of an expert when it comes to geology,I have to say.But I,I talked about this unstable archive in the beginning.And I think if,if I'm thinking about these objects and how long their life is going to be,I think that's something that is really astonishing to me on like,if we not only think from a human perspective when it comes to time,but maybe on a geological scale,also what it means to create an object from a material like stone that is going to outlive me for sure by,by many,many centuries.I think that's,I think that's,that may be the biggest point that influenced the way I approach this craft.And also then when we create the next objects together to be certain that what we're doing is,you know,the context of it is right and it's really something that we want to produce.Yeah.Yeah,because you're,you're taking,you're taking a material that normally exists on geological timescales.And then,and then in the space of a day,you're transforming it into this other object,which then has a kind of lifespan out beyond that.Exactly.It's super,super cool.And I mean,technically you could take the object again,bring it to the lava shell and remelt it.Remelt it again.You could.So technically it's also circular.Yeah.Yeah.And I mean,it's made from,it's made from natural material as well.Yes.I mean,it's not something made from plastic or,it is extractive in a way that we're taking this material from somewhere,but we also have to say that this material is being generated,still,with every eruption.Yeah,so it's not like a,like a,a large scale mining operation when you're,you're just like,you know,taking,taking,taking.Here,you're taking in the same way that you're taking the geothermal energy or you're taking,you know,the,the,the power from the water in that it is,it's renewing itself as a raw material.Exactly.Yeah.I think what really,what I really like about this project personally is this whole overlap of innovation,art,and practicality.I think.Sustainability.And sustainability.Let's not forget that point.Yeah.So I feel like,and,and this is exactly what we really like to do.You know,we,we like to support people who are trying to test out new things.Maybe they're doing a research and,but I think back to you,since I have you here live,you know,also praise to you because you're very much a doer,you know,you reached out to us,you talked about it and then it was just like,let's go.Given that we were willing to do it with you,you just did.I feel like sometimes there's a lot of talk.So my advice to anyone who has an idea,not necessarily that has anything to do with Lavashur,just in general,it's all about the execution of the project.It's not just about the,you know,the,the,it's all about the execution part.Yes.You know,having the idea is easy.Executing on it is the most difficult part.And that's,I guess,your own story as well,Raka.Sure.Absolutely.And I mean,sort of defying all odds.Yeah.Yeah.I mean,we said,he's probably not going to be able to do it.And you proved us wrong.So,you know.And I'm sure that many people told you the same in the beginning.A hundred percent.Yeah.Yeah.Okay.So,at the end of this whole thesis,this whole project.Yes.What have you actually created?Is it a collection of objects?Is it a new material process?Is it a craft?Is it a network?Or is the project just the knowledge that you developed?It's all of the above,I would say.Yeah.It's a very tightly woven net of all of these points you've mentioned.And I think that's also,now for me looking at this project,the best thing that it's just so many,so many angles you can still find on this to improve,whether it's the narrative,whether it's the way we,you know,talk about it in the future.Like,how are we communicating the objects that are coming out of this?Stories.The stories.How do you present it in a more academical way,maybe in a technical way?And also,how does this network that we've created now,also with making the molds at Mount Stepan,how is that,how can that be sustaining itself throughout the next couple of years?Yeah.And there's a phrase that you use in your thesis,the design of the practice is the practice.Can you elaborate on that?What you actually kind of mean by that?Yes.I mean,that's the title of a talk that I've listened to last yearat the Dutch Design Week of two studios that I've been following for a really long time.And the idea of it is thatthe way you conduct your projects as a designerinform,obviously,how you work as a designer.And the same way is like the perspectives you bring into a projectkind of transform the project itself.So it's like an interdependent process thatcontinuously reshapes the way you work.And that for me was just a veryhealthy perspective to develop,I think,in terms of my craft to stay,you know,a bit fluid and dynamic.Back to the dance again.It's the dance again.Yeah.I like to dance,apparently.Because I've also beenworking with the geothermal systems in Iceland.We've actually started a small company making geothermal benches for the public spacebecause Veitur,the local water managing company,reached out and was like,we have this hot water.Is there anything that you could do with it?And we were like,I mean,from Germany,here,one of the biggest chucks was the temperature outside.And we were like,it would be amazing to have a warm spot togetherand look at the seaside,for example.So geothermal systems,also fishery systems.So it's always,yeah,it's the craft that you're doing as a designeralways evolves with the things that you're tacklingin a way orinforming yourself about.And that was,or that is why I mentioned it in the thesis also.Yeah.And in many ways,this project also shaped my methods a lotbecause I had to adapt to the system here.I was just talking with a lot of experts,with the architects,Arn Hildur,in the beginning and just,yeah,trying to find my own take on it.And of course,creating this collaboration.And yeah,that's why the design of the practice is the practice.So where next then?I mean,you've proved you can do this.Where would you like to go with it next?And is there anything specificallythat you haven't produced in terms of objectsthat you would really like to have a go at?That's,I mean,the thing is,it's just,it's so vast,the possibilities we have nowbecause we know we can stabilize this processas long as we can make mold for the object.So one thing that I wanted to create with a friend,it sounds a bit silly maybe,but there were,like in the 2010s,there were these toys called Beyblades.Yes.Which were these spinning toysthat you could,you had like a little...Battle them together.Like an arena.You'd put them in a little kind ofball-shaped thingand spin themand one would try and bash the other one out of the arena.But that's just...I have no idea what you're talking about.But okay.It's like two spinning toysthat just compete against each other,you know,sounds intriguing.Yes.I don't know,but that was one thing I really wanted to doeven though it might seem a bit silly,but I think it could teach me a lot about the processof how intricate you can go with patterns and stuff.But then on the other hand,just,yeah,very practical applications,whatever,whatever it might be.I think it could also be very interesting,again,to look at architectural things,whether it's structural or decorative,where would it make sensein an,in a system to be utilized?I've been thinking about hot pool tilesbecause I've just been thinking like ablack lavaor like a black greenishlike hot potgeothermally heated.Could look really nice.It is, yeah.Nice.I would love to,yeah,swim in one of these.But yeah,so it's,it's broad.Yeah.And I mean,I guess,you know,one of the things that comes next,we've been discussing this,but I mean,we are,at Lavashjö,are very willing to,to continue the workand do the sort of,it's sort of research,it's sort of development,but also,you know,hopefully,you know,we are going to be applying for some grantsand hopefully we will get some of themto continue.Absolutely.But for,for our audience,I'm,one thing that I would like to ask you,like you mentioned earlierthat you're going to have a displayin the Dutch,Dutch Design Week,Design Weekin October.Where else can people follow youor read more about what you're doingor,or,you know,what are the mediumswhere people can reach outand follow?Well,first of all,my website,I think,is something that I'm updatingquite constantly.It's maxgreiner.studio.Then my Instagram channel,that's max underscore R,underscore greiner.But if you want to take a lookat the lava objects right now,I think it's best to go to the lava showand look at the displaywe have in their shop.And otherwise,you're just going to hear about it,hopefully,on my platformsif there's anything new coming out of it.And if anybody has an ideaor like a collaborationsort of suggestion,reach out to you on Instagram?Absolutely.I mean,that'd be brilliant.Yeah.Cool.All right.One more final question.Let's just take thisright the way back round to,you know,when you first arrived hereand you come off the plane,you're coming out through Kaplavíkand you're seeingall this basalt around you.When you head out thereinto the wilds nowin that kind of,you know,wreckiness areaand you see all that basalt now,do you look at it differently?Yes,absolutely.Because I relate to this materialin a way that,I mean,the reason for me coming herewas to experience this placeand to learnabout having a different perspective.And this materialenabled me to do thatand to ground myself.Haha,ground you.Exactly.Little pun.But definitely,no,emotional material for me now.Not in a way that I,not at all in a way thatI would say like,you know,we've,in this collaboration,a collaborationmanaged to impose ourselveson this materialbut that we found a way towork togetherwith this materialto create something new.And I think,you know,Something which in its molten stateis often feared.Exactly.Yes.Yeah.Final question.Do you havea favorite volcano in Iceland?God,I wasn't prepared for this one.That's a good one.Did you see any of the live eruptions?Yeah,last year,last summer.Okay.Near Grindavík.Yeah.I've been very close.And,but,what's my favorite?Probably Katla.I have to go with Katla,I think.That's an impressive one.Seems to be a running themearound these parts.Yes.Yes.She is sort of a favoritefor a lava show.But I think alsoit helps that it'srelatively easyto pronounce.Yeah.Absolutely.People like hesitatewhen it comes tosome of the others.Yes.Fantastic.Excellent.Well,Max,thank you so muchfor coming onand just,the whole thingis so ridiculously fascinatingand,and crazyand brilliantand all that stuff.I would really urge peopleto go and check outthe stuff on Max'splatforms there.So thank youso muchfor comingand joining us today.It has beenan absolute delight.Likewise.Thank you so muchfor having me.Thank youand keep up the good work.All right.So once again,massive thanks to Maxfor that one.But yeah,I really enjoyed that.Yeah.He's,I think it's justso interestingto,to have somethingthat's so differentand yetwe're still dealingwith lava.Yeah.Yeah.It's lava all the way down.Yeah.And I like,I really likehow,I mean,now I'm likesort of,Passing yourselfon the back,yes.No,but I likehow versatilethese episodes are.It was all aboutlike designand how you canreallymake useof lavato produce somethingor,orcraftsmanshipin that sense.Yeah.But I mean,sometimes it's been aboutlike volcanoesin spaceand other timesit's been aboutlike specific,specific volcanoeshere in Iceland.We do,we do kind of jumparound a little bit.Yeah.But I'd like to doa bit more of thiswhere we're kind of,we're still talkingvolcanoes,we're still talking,you know,the kind of processesbehind it all.Butthis putsnot just more of akind of humanspin on thingsbut actuallyone of the thingsthat makes ushumanwhich is the kind ofcreativityand artand expressionand stuff.And the stories.And the stories.Again,always back to the stories.Always about the stories.Stories make the worldgo round.Max was great.Yeah.Likereally interestingwhat he's trying to do.That he's goton his websiteand his Instagramby all meansget in touch with himand by all meansget in touch with us.Yes.If you have ideas for guests,if you've got somethingyou want to tell us about,if there's anything at allrelated to whatwe've been talking aboutor something that wehaven't even gotanywhere near yet,please do let us know.You can emailpodcastat lavashow.comand of courseyou can find uson all the usualsocial platformswhich I can neverremember and so.Yeah,I meanLavashowIcelandon Instagramon TikTokFacebookLinkedInYouTubebasicallymost of the socialssothat's where we're atandI would saywe're most activeprobablyon Instagrambut all the otherplatforms as welland Iwe really reallylike hearing from youwhen we getlikeemailswith suggestionsabout who to talk toandtopics to coveryeahwe like that a lotyeahand do not forgetto check outthe show notesbecause that's alwaysa wealth of extra informationa lot of the stuffthat we talk aboutduring the podcastthere will beadditional informationin the show notesas wellso don't forgetabout thatbecause we're going tohave plenty of thingsto show youin those show notesand for this onefor instancewe're going to havelike picturesof some of the itemsthat he was showingand you'll actuallybe able to seesome of the itemsin facthe didn't even get roundto showing on cameraall the stuffthat he had with himso we will make sureto have all of that stuffin the show notesas wellanywayI think that's usfor this timeit was so much funthank youthank youand thank you allfor joining usand hope that youjoin us again next timebye for nowbye
